The leader and deputy leader of Warwickshire County Council face allegations of "talking loudly" about redundancies in front of staff ahead of Christmas.

Cllr Sam Jones made the claims during Tuesday's full council meeting with deputy leader Cllr Stephen Shaw appearing to deny them, his use of the words "no" and "lie" cutting through murmurs of discontent as elected officials spoke over each other. 

It made for a spiky back and forth that chair Cllr Dale Keeling had to intervene in to allow Cllr Jones to conclude his speech during the debate on the Green Party's challenge to Cllr George Finch's leadership. 

Cllr Finch did not choose to address the matter when he spoke later in the meeting.

Members typically only get one chance to speak. Cllr Shaw had already utilised his prior to Cllr Jones but did not exercise his right to ask the chair for a right of reply, a request that the council's constitution allows him to make. 

Cllr Jones said he had been "stood in the antechamber" – an area outside the main council chamber that is generally restricted to councillors, staff and invited guests – near the Christmas tree with Cllr Nicki Scott at the time.

"Some kids had come in to sing some carols," he said.

"A lot of the staff members were hanging around and I was stood with Councillor Scott. Behind me walked in Councillor Finch and his deputy leader and they were talking loudly as the children were singing."

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Cllr Jones shrugged off an interruption before adding: "What wasn't acceptable to me, at Christmas time – when I saw some staff members looking at me because of it I was shocked – was that they were talking about redundancies."

The comments were met with a smattering of groans to which Cllr Jones replied: "You were, I heard you."

Cllr Finch voice emerged to say "all this is wrong" before a combination of other voices made those who were not speaking into live microphones inaudible. 

Cllr Keeling sent his microphone live to ask those who were not meant to be speaking at that point to make any comments "through the chair" in line with council rules.

Cllr Jones, who still had the floor, said: "I can only tell the truth, that's what I heard."

It was at that point Cllr Shaw used the words "no" and "lie".

Cllr Jones reiterated: "That's what I heard, standing behind me, Councillor Finch talking about redundancy around Christmas."

He concluded that it was "right thing for Warwickshire" to vote for Cllr Finch to lose the leadership but he survived by one vote – 27-26 – thanks to support from six out of the seven Conservative councillors present and Restore Britain's two councillors deciding against voting either way.

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